panik | US/UK spellings - yup, that hoary old chestnut again...

Current Mood: confused
Current Location: Still home (man it's cold!)
Current Music: blissful silence

Entry tags:

US/UK spellings - yup, that hoary old chestnut again...

So I'm working through the beta for my fic (praise be to the

betagoddess) and I don't know what to do about the (cue organ chord, wolf howl) spelling...

It's a TS story; the characters are, as we know, Americans; that means no un-American word usage and phraseology - fine, I get that - but spelling? Do two Americans have to be spelled American?

I've done this both ways in the past, but mostly used my own Brit spelling because it's easier and I don't honestly believe we spell as we speak. But then, I get fb that tells me 'the spelling really took me out of the story' -

And I'm thinking; 'why'? Because I read American spelling in say, Doctor Who fic and all that makes me think is - the author's American. So long as British characters aren't keeping bodies in the trunk, it doesn't matter that that spare that's in the way is spelled tire and, in all honesty, my first reaction is to tell the Americans to suck it up because by far the largest chunk of the English-speaking world spells British anyway and we don't care so why should everyone else have to change to make life easier for you? - or that's to say, the few who bother to send fb complaining about it. (o:

But then, I'm getting that fb and sometimes, I cave. I used US spelling for Wind Whispering - even though it looked weird and wrong and took forever to change.

So, I'm asking an honest question of you all - does it matter, really? And if it does, why (I thought about making this a poll, but I shan't because I need more than yes or no answers; I need explanations, dammit. (o) If it really, truly, honest-to-god makes a real difference, I shall use your blasted spelling (*G* - even though it looks... really strange and will take me all day) but if it does, I'd really love to know, and why.

ETA: And messing with this all afternoon means I've done NO work - none at all - on the actual story (which was the whole point, wasn't it?) *g*

Threaded | Flat

It doesn't matter to me in the least - I've read lots of American-spelled and British-spelled stories in TS and SGA, and it's all good with me, as long as, as you say, the content of the speech doesn't sound wrong for the region. I definitely think the author should do what is most comfortable for them. Any system that is consistent is fine.

Hm, it's an issue I see debated a lot. Like you, it doesn't bother me the other way round - I've always read a lot of American writers, so for the most part I don't even notice what spelling is being used. Yet I've heard a substantial number of American readers say they have problems with reading British spelling in a US fandom.

You are a British writer - you are writing in your own language, just as a French writer might write Jim and Blair in French. It seems nonsensical to insist on you changing your entire syntax just because the characters you are portraying are American. As long as the dialogue and idioms are appropriate in the colloquial sense, what should it matter whether there are a few extra Us in there? Yet to some people it does. But other American readers have likewise said they have no difficulty reading British spelling. It's hard to infer from the discussions which pop us here and there which are in the majority.

Myself, I chose from day one to attempt to write in American, rather than British, English. I assumed that since most of the audience for TS fic is American, it would make sense to try to cater to them by adopting their language. Yet lots of great writers in the fandom don't bother to do so, and they are very well thought of. Mab Brown and Jess Riley spring to mind - not British, but their antipodean spelling is much the same as ours.

Having said that, it's an issue that concerns me enough that I am nervous about the British spelling I've chosen to use in my current WIP (in which the characters are in a fantasy setting, which bears no resemblance to America, so I decided to write in my own language for once). And I have no idea at all what to do with my Doctor Who/TS crossover!

All that waffle goes to show that I have no easy answer for you, sorry. But I do have a very appropriate icon ;-)

to me, it depends on the exact word. 'tyre' gets me every time, because it looks like a completely different word, not just 'tire' in 'british'.

honour/honor and color/colour will sometimes get me, but it usually depends on context.

otoh, i flow right over the z/s thing - realize/realise, recognize/recognise... i'm actually at the point where i don't know which of those is 'correct' american spelling anymore.

then there are the weird small things. i love Gil Hale, and she does an excellent job americanizing her fic, but it totally drives me crazy when she has someone 'ring up' some one else. in america, they *call* you... the weirdest thing about this is that i didn't catch until i was re-reading her stuff, which tells you how good she is!

any, back to the point. it depends on context, and exactly which spellings it is. i'm more likely to be picky about a fic set in modern-day times. that may, in fact, be the whole of my reaction to 'tyre' - it may look extremely old-fashioned to me. but by the same token, if the piece is set more than 100yrs ago, british spellings don't bother me as much, and i tend to think of them as adding to the atmosphere of the piece. even if it's an american piece.

i don't know if that makes sense, but i hope it helps.

-bs

As an Aussie who reads in both US and UK fandoms, I find that the correct number of u's in a word won't throw me out of an American fanfic - but there is one word that will throw me every single time.
Jim and Blair have asses. Bodie and Doyle have arses.
"Nuff said.

I have to admit, when I read TS (or any other "American" show) and the spelling is not American, I am temporarily thrown out of the story. When I read dS, HL, etc, I skim right by the spelling if it's "British." I actually use a Canadian beta for dS to make sure Fraser doesn't do/say anything too USA. (In return, she has me look over her American stuff to catch Canadian spelling and wording.)

Just my two cents, worth nothing. ;>

.
Speaking as a reader and as a beta -- it matters not one whit. 'Honour' and 'honor' have the same pronunciation, so who cares which you use? IMO, the only people who complain are those who need to get a life.

It's a different matter with language, of course. Jim and Blair wouldn't take the 'lift' unless they were visiting your neck of the woods -- but you know that.

In short, words are important, system of spelling is not. (IE, it has to be spelled correctly in some part of the world. *g*)
.

As an English writer writing for mostly American shows, I feel your pain :-) I held out for years clinging to my spelling; idioms and different words (boot/trunk) I was fine with changing, but I wanted my s and u spelling.

Then I began to edit and proof for an American publisher and eh, I gave in and retrained my spellchecker and now I use US spellings throughout... but it still feels like a betrayal in a way.

Oh puh-leeze! I can't imagine getting thrown out by spelling. Idiom is different but then I am probably a poor judge of these matters since I am getting Britified at a rapid rate. I hardly know which is which anymore.

I must confess that in younger and much less mature days I wanked my way out of Starsky & Hutch fandom because I got a US-beta to check for the kind of things you're mentioning, but still got all these prim little comments telling me that the bits I'd missed 'threw me right out of the story'.

And I was like, you two-faced fucktards, I've been reading your bastardisation of Harry Potter and Lord of the Riings language for years without thinking any worse of you etc. etc. (and we don't need to fill in the rest of that rant) turned to Pros fandom and became a Brit-nazi (but a passive-aggressive one because I couldn't be arsed to get too heavily involved in the fandom). After that I think I might have grown up a bit.

So. Um. I would say, please yourself because chances are you aren't going to please anybody else. These days, if it was me, I would go for complete authenticity including spellings, but I wouldn't think the worse of anyone who didn't, unless they were writing British characters and used the dreaded 'gotten'.

i've alwys used New Zealand (aka British) spelling. in ten years of writing fanfic i've never even had someone comment on it. i did think about using US speling briefly, but since my first fandom was due South, which is nominally, at least, Canadian, i didn't see any point.

Every time I read an SGA story with our Canadian and American characters running around and I see things like "whilst" which most people in North America don't even use in a sentence, it tosses me right out of the story. The same thing happens if I see an over-abundance of American spellings and -isms in a British based fanfiction, like Harry Potter and company going to the prom or whatever.

And the flip side of the coin is true - UK spellings look equally weird to us - all those extra "u's" in things and the other day I read a sentence where one of the guys was thinking that finally Rodney was "getting with the programme" instead of "program" and all I ended up thinking was "why the hell do they need to cram in all those unnecessary extra letters in words?"

For what it's worth, I have to stomp on myself not to use "grey" (and I forget sometimes) -- it looks so much greyer than "gray" does.

I do probably notice most of the extra "u" spellings (not always the s/z ones), but they don't bug me. In a professionally published work I guess I'd expect the spelling to follow the nationality of the POV (but what if there were two main characters and one was British and the other American? And the story was set in Tierra del Fuego? ::rolls eyes::). In fanfic, though, I don't worry about it as a reader (especially if the idiom is rock solid).

I also have profound respect for people who are writing outside their own native idiom -- I really doubt I could do it myself (and will probably never have the courage to try). There are so many small things (as well as large things) that go into the way language is used in different countries (or different regions within those countries) -- spelling is way down on the bottom of the list to me as long as it's consistent throughout.

Having said this, I admit -- in my personal and quirky obsessiveness -- that (since I read out loud in my head as I go along), when I do notice 'flavour' and 'honour' etc., I pronounce them slightly differently, which gives me a slightly different feel about what I'm reading. It doesn't keep me from enjoying what I'm reading in the least (and sheesh, I'd never even fuss in my own head about it, much less to the author), but it gives me the same effect as if I was reading Barbara Pym or Jane Austen, and "color" or "candor" was used instead of "colour" and "candour" -- the American version "looks" flatter to me and sounds less like the people and the location.

So -- I notice (if I were reading Pros I'd notice American spellings for the same reason, I think), but it doesn't interfere with my ability to enjoy the story or with my respect for the writer and her talent and whatever choices she makes.

Personally, I couldn't care less. But my theory is that it probably bothers some people because to them it looks like a *mis*spelling, rather than a different spelling; those extra seconds it takes them to compute fucks with the flow. I hate seeing actual misspellings in stories (I mean, a lot ... a few are bound to happen, I guess), and it can bother me when trying to enjoy the story. But American/Brit spellings are both familiar enough to me that I read them smoothly and don't think twice about it.

Probably it wouldn't bother people (Americans) so much if they read more literature with both spelling types represented ... it would become natural and not seem like words are misspelled.

To actually address your concern ... no way should you adjust your spelling to accommodate a specific group. As Fraser might say: that's just silly. I can't think of a single good reason to do something like that. We should all be lucky to have correct spelling at all! To complain about correct English spelling because we haven't broadened our experiences ... well, that's ballsy!

debraC

Personally, the spelling issue doesn't bother me at all, and I sure as hell don't expect writers to change their habits just to suit a small vocal minority. I think that if you're that easily thrown out of a fic, you're just too tempermental a reader.

I do hear it a lot from all angles, though. I sat in a Harry Potter panel at a con a few years back and listened to a British woman tell us that unless we had a British BETA, we Americans had absolutely no business writing HP fanfic AT ALL. She wasn't really content with us using on-line guides either - had to be a real beta, or she wouldn't read it at all.

I know the argument, and I even get it to a point, since I've had the odd, "oh, you're an American writer, aren't you?" moment when reading Pros. But it doesn't bother me enough to bother me when I meet it in stories, so long as the writer is engaging my attention and enjoyment.

I'm not giving up my weird spellings because they're a part of me and my identity on the net. Yes indeed, Blair has an ass, and a very nice one it is too, but I need to be able to have Jim wax lyrical about the colour with a u of his eyes.

I guess the short answer is that you can't please everyone, so you may as well please yourself. :-)

I haven't read all 50 comments yet, but if UK spelling or word usage knocks someone from a story they were not that into it to anyway.
I figured out what a torch or a lift even jumpers and singlets translate into.
Good grief,if they don't know? look it up! That's why we have dictionaries and thesaurus.
I say concentrate on the story and worry not about nitpickers.
Ooh I seem a little bitchy today must be hormonal::lol::
As the Gilda Radner character(her name escapes me) would say after a rant..."Never mind".

...because my feelings on the subject are, well, mixed.

As an Aussie, I've learned to switch from US to UK spelling and back again with considerably less mental effort than changing gears when driving (I have to, our spelling isn't quite the same as either). I admit that when I first joined Blakes 7 fandom I was a total pedant - Its A British Universe and Everything In It is Too Including Spellcheck So There - and in fact I still do wince at American spelling where Avon et al are concerned.

For other shows, including TS, the part of me that should never be left alone with a dictionary likes it when it's 'right'. But it's really only a mild thing (let's face it, were I to stay pedantic I'd be in a hell of a mess with historical fanfic... "thou needs must do it even if we your noble and revered audience canst not understand but one word!!!") and entirely illogical; of you ask for reasons I could only mumble "it's pretty" and half the time I forget to do it myself {blush).

Well, I'm not much a speller in either British or American English. I thought that words with the u in them like colour were just a variation. I didn't know until recently, that they were British spelling. That doesn't bother me at all. I've been known to spell with the u, and I'm American.

That said, vocabulary does through me off sometimes, or the way something is phrased, because I have to translate it and it takes me out of the story. The one that gets me the most is when people are in hospital. Americans never say that. We say sombody is in the hospital. That one stops me dead every time,

I can live with it, but you wanted to know what I thought.

I've really enjoyed Mab Brown's recent regency J/B story with the vocabulary from that area. I guess where ever uou want to stick Jim and Blair in space and time should influence your phrasings.

starwatcher's idea was good about the header. You can do what feels right to you and let it be the reader's choice about reading or not. I'll read your stories if you write them n latin. ( after I find a latin text book)

Forgive me if I made any typo's here, I can hardly see the typing, its really tiny and light.
Laurie

I'm not a native English speaker so it seems a bit trivial to me and, yet, I can understand the complaints, particularly when it comes to dialogs or first POV parts. When you read these, you forget the narrator so the language used, even if it's simply a matter of spelling, should be as authentic as possible.

I fought this one in University (in England LOL)

Teach took an A paper and marked it down for spelling. I insisted my spelling was just fine - thank you. She pulled out her Oxford. I pulled out my Websters. We both broke up laughing!

(This was in the typewriter era. School policy was that 'foreign students' did not get dinged for spelling/grammer. I was *indeed* as foreign as any other - whatever it *looked* like! )

The authors voice tells the story.
The author writes as the author writes.
As you wouldnt complain about a French writer writing in french?

BTW? This I hold true even when the author makes some MAJOR cultural/linguistic boners - as is not uncommon for British writers ficcing in American fandoms and - I would assume - American writers writing in British fandoms. In all my years I have only felt the need to send one 'fact check' correction based on geography - and that was a KILLER. Writer stated the character would visit 'All 52 states'. But anything short of that?)

This is the writters fantasy. Love it or don't - but you're not paying so.... let them enjoy their fic.

Threaded | Flat

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Warning - Abadon Logic All Ye Who Enter Here...

no subject

no subject

Fought this one in university