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Fanlib

Fanlib

This worries me greatly. Not this organisation in particular, but the change in mentality it represents, the attempt to comercialise fanfic.

This bit in particular gives me the heebies:
Notwithstanding the foregoing, FanLib reserves the right at all times to disclose any information as FanLib deems necessary to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or governmental request, or to edit, refuse to post or to remove any information or materials, in whole or in part, in FanLib's sole discretion...

However, by submitting the Submissions to FanLib, You hereby grant FanLib a non-exclusive, worldwide, and royalty-free license to use, reproduce, distribute, and display the Submissions in connection with the Website.

There is a very good, very detailed post about it here.

The way I see it, if fanfic ever becomes a source of income, the Big Boys will be on it like a ton of bricks, a ship-load of legality will suddenly appear; there will be sound, financial reasons to stamp on amateur fanfic and fandom as we know it will wither and perish.

I say, treat it like it's made of Ebola - stay away. If no one goes there, it will die.

(I'm no fool, I recognise that things are about to change and there's probably litle we can do to stop it, but we can take some control; the slope should be slippiest at our end, not theirs.)

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Oy!

Talk about lighting the blue touch paper and retiring... Thanks for the heads uyp - not going near it with a barge pole!

But why do these people think they will get anywhere. Most people write FANFIC for their community, and we have our own methods of reaching people, I can't imagine large numbers flocking to this site.

I once read a post on some list where a fanfic writer was asking people not to pass around her stories online, saying that she never posts her stories on the web but only puts them in zine forms and sell them because she needs money.

I remember thinking at the time, "If this is how she makes her living, she must be either very talented, popular and rich or living in poverty."

I don't know what a zine is exactly, have never seen one in person and don't know what they look like, how they're made, how much they cost, how the whole thing works.

But from what little I understand about them, aren't fanfic writers who put their stories in so-called zine forms and sell them making money? Very little profit, I'm sure, but still, money is money, isn't it?

I'm NOT accusing anyone or implying anything negative about zines. I'm just curious cuz I really didn't know anything about this zine stuff until recently, and just about every fanfic I read has a disclaimer saying "The characters belong to blah, blah, blah... and I'm not making a dime off this blah, blah, blah."

In theory, the fanzines cover costs and no more - I don;t know if the publishers make a profiut, but if they do it's pretty small. The writers certainly don't make any money out of it.

"I remember thinking at the time, "If this is how she makes her living, she must be either very talented, popular and rich or living in poverty."
I'm confused by what you mean - no one makes a 'living' out of fanfic, it's done purely for the pleasure of doing it and being part of a fandom community. I write for a living, I also write fanfic; one is my job, the other my hobby - they're mutually exclusive.

"But from what little I understand about them, aren't fanfic writers who put their stories in so-called zine forms and sell them making money? Very little profit, I'm sure, but still, money is money, isn't it?"
No, it's not. See above.

Reading between the lines, I can't help but wonder what your interest in all this is, posting anonymously and all? Your ip# says you're in Korea - proxy server, is it?

Some people will try to make a profit out of anything if they think they can. I think it sets a dangerous precedent that could damage a world that we like to think is friendly, safe and above all, amateur.

My worry is that the gullible will get dragged into this, thinking they're going to make a profit from their writing. They won't - someone will, but it won't be the writer (ime it never bloody well is ::G::) and in the process, damage fandom in general.

I sincerely hope no one will. The more of us that post about this the better. Hopefully forewarned is fore-armed. If we can nip this in the bud, so much the better.

I was half wondering about raising this with the anti christ (aka LG) ... I wonder what he'd have to say?

LG???

Lee Goldberg

http://leegoldberg.typepad.com/

He's virently(sp) anti fanfic 'cause its illegal and all published writers should hate it and send cease and desist orders....

Ah, of course. Oh yeah, I know all about *him*!

But I just got an email - a new agency wants to see my new novel! ::is too happy to be angry at anyone right now::

OH cool :DDD

fingers crossed!

Squee! Well, you know, sorta squee. I've been here before, but he got back to me right away - it's better than the usual 'wait three months then fuck off' you get from a literary agency. ::G::

Better go and do some work... I've got a submission to prep!

whoa. Scary stuff, that. The thing is, they have some bigwigs behind them. HarperCollins, Penguin Books & Simon & Schuster may not be the biggest wigs in the publishing world, but they are very real wigs. What the hell are they thinking???

There are some zine publishers who do make money from their zines, which is a potential liability (literally!) for the rest of us. I know of at least one zine publisher who spends most of her time going to cons to sell zines. Unless she's independently wealthy or has a very rich, induglent partner, she's making money from selling zines.

oooh, potential conga rats!!!

Oh man, I am struggling with the submission, though!

'1 page with a few lines on the five most recent competing and comparable books giving author, title, publisher and date of publication together with a note on how the books relate to the author's own book.'

Heck... I don't know!

I'll be honest, zines are not my thing and I know they justify the cover price by saying it 'covers costs'; if some of them are making a profit then, that's, at the very least, legally grey - it muddies the water and queers the pitch for us all. But then, like I say, I'm not a fan of zines. I don't buy them or write for them so what do I know?

But even if publishers are *maybe* making some money, the writers aren't - I don;t see how the writers ever will; certainly not through this organisation which makes me ask, why bother with it, when it has the potential to do so much damage?

"What the hell are they thinking???"
Beats me. I'm just staying the hell away and i hope other writers do, too.

Money and co-opting any future income streams. The section about claiming all rights worldwide for all kinds of media is a section that they try to get put into contracts with their regular authors. Authors with any kind of decent representation get it struck.

I don't write much fanfic but I would strongly urge writers to stay away.

I'm amazed and pissed off. The TOS that Angiepen dissected are downright scary - excuse us while *we* make the money out of copyrighted material and leave your arses to hang in the wind. Grrr.

I've bought... one zine, I think, although people have given me several others. Zines are still a way to reach a certain body of fen that only read zines, not online, although that number is shrinking rapidly. Fans of zines say that there's more quality *snort* in zines than online. I say you just gotta know where to look. ;-)

hey everyone,
I'm Chris one of the founders of FanLib> it's really late and i have been working on the site all day. I'm exhausted but i just realized what was going on here and all of the commentsts are making me sick. we're a small company with 10 emplyees who work 16 hours a day to try and make a great website. we're real people! with feelings and everything! we have been working on this and dreaming about it for a long time and you are just here to shit on it without giving us a chance. i care deeply about what you think but this is crazy. we're good people here and you make us sound like we're an evil corporation or the govt. sending your kids to war or something. we really are all about celebrating fan fiction and fan fiction readers and writers. im sorry this is so short and please excuse the fact that i am cutting and pasting this across a bunch of ljs but i gotta get some sleep.
chris

i forgot to mention that we recently posted an faq on the site that may help everyone understand us a little better.
http://www.fanlib.com/cms.do?page=faq.html

Well it still seems to me that the only ones making a profit from any fiction posted on your site is you (please do explain to me if that's not so; I'm a writer, not a lawyer). In which case - why would anyone want to post their fiction on your site?

In my particular fandom, we already have a very well-known, well-organised and active network for distributing and publicising fic. Why do we need you to come in and make this a commercial exercise with the massive potential for damage that entails?

Well I'm sorry your feelings have been damaged, but then you are attempting to profit from our creative endeavours so you must expect emotions to run high.

I read your fAC, but it hasn't ansewered some of the most fundamental concerns. I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot more from people in the next few days - maybe you could answer those very real concerns.

"we're a small company with 10 emplyees who work 16 hours a day to try and make a great website. we're real people! with feelings and everything!"
That's not what I'm reading about you and your company.

"we have been working on this and dreaming about it for a long time "
Since 2003, under a variety of company names, apparently.

"you are just here to shit on it without giving us a chance."
Hey fandom people have a way above average IQ (it's a fact, check it out) and we know something bad when we see it.

"we really are all about celebrating fan fiction and fan fiction readers and writers."
No, you are all about *profiting* from fan fiction and its readers and potentially damaging fandom in the process.

"please excuse the fact that i am cutting and pasting this across a bunch of ljs..."

Interestingly, I've just done a search and can't find a single other post from you on *any* of the most active, animated and informed discussions; this is the only one I've found.

darkrosetiger found a few more journals he spammed (http://darkrosetiger.livejournal.com/340766.html). Whoever this person is, they really don't know fan-ettiquette.

"Whoever this person is, they really don't know fan-ettiquette."
Seems they really don't know much about fandom, period.

Thanks for the heads-up.

"Interestingly, I've just done a search and can't find a single other post from you on *any* of the most active, animated and informed discussions; this is the only one I've found."

Good people, the reason for this is that mimbo, aka Chris, aka has been going about, deleting his messages from threads.

But you can still read the responses to his messages here:
http://cofax7.livejournal.com/446806.html#comments

and here:
http://telesilla.livejournal.com/553920.html?thread=4406464#t4406464

and here:
http://angiepen.livejournal.com/38593.html#comments

Thanks to darkrosetiger and neotoma for the information. Any further examples will be received with gratitude. (o:

I read zines before we had an internet (*feels old*), and at the time, there was a *very* strong code of honor -- and common sense because although zines flew under the copyright radar rather more than online fic, people were fully aware of those issues -- that zines were purely nonprofit. It is true that some people are exceptions to the rule, but the odd exception does not change the fact that most people in the zine world did/do follow that code of honor.

I think there's confusion out there because of people who've been profiting from selling zines at cons(?) - if I've understood the arguments correctly.

I'm 99.999% certain that people who produce zines don't make much, if any, money from what they do. I'm 100% certain the writers don't gain anything monetarily from zines.

I'll be honest, I came into fandom in the internet age and have never really seen the point of zines. I do understand that some people like to have a nicely printed, illustrated version of fic, but in the age of the net, when there's so much fic available for free at the click of a button... It's just not for me, but I know there's still a huge market for zines, my only worry is, if people are making a profit, no matter how small, it becomes legally grey and has implications for fandom as a whole.

There's a strong code of honour in fandom as a whole, it seems to me - though a few idiots occassioanally queer the pitch. It's specifically because of that - the 'amateur' aspect of fanfic - that makes me worry about attempts to commercialise it. I do think it's a dangerously slippy slope.

I'm just thinking that, from what was being posted in that sub-thread, that the rare excepion was being posited as the rule.

I miss zines in the sense that I do not really enjoy reading fic online -- I spend so much time at a terminal as it is! -- and when I first got into online fandom, I was on a university connection that timed out after a couple of hours (wow, that sounds prehistoric, doesn't it? For some reason undergrads got unlimited time but grad students got one hour peak time and another non-peak.) -- so I used to print out fic anyway. Then it occurred to me how many trees I was killing, so I stopped, but as a result I do read less fic now.

And I reposted his deleted comment to my LJ.

Excellent!

You may want to screencap, because he's been going around deleting the spamming posts. Wanktastic!

Done, thanks!

Who is LG? thanks!

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Fanlib

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(aka Fingers)

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I'll tell you one thing they are thinking

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fanlib

one more thing

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Actually, let me qualify...

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What is he afraid of?

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