US/UK spellings - yup, that hoary old chestnut again...

[panik]

So I'm working through the beta for my fic (praise be to the betagoddess) and I don't know what to do about the (cue organ chord, wolf howl) spelling...

It's a TS story; the characters are, as we know, Americans; that means no un-American word usage and phraseology - fine, I get that - but spelling? Do two Americans have to be spelled American?

I've done this both ways in the past, but mostly used my own Brit spelling because it's easier and I don't honestly believe we spell as we speak.  But then, I get fb that tells me 'the spelling really took me out of the story' -

And I'm thinking; 'why'? Because I read American spelling in say, Doctor Who fic and all that makes me think is - the author's American. So long as British characters aren't keeping bodies in the trunk, it doesn't matter that that spare that's in the way is spelled tire and, in all honesty, my first reaction is to tell the Americans to suck it up because by far the largest chunk of the English-speaking world spells British anyway and we don't care so why should everyone else have to change to make life easier for you? - or that's to say, the few who bother to send fb complaining about it. (o:

But then, I'm getting that fb and sometimes, I cave. I used US spelling for Wind Whispering - even though it looked weird and wrong and took forever to change.

So, I'm asking an honest question of you all - does it matter, really? And if it does, why  (I thought about making this a poll, but I shan't because I need more than yes or no answers; I need explanations, dammit. (o) If it really, truly, honest-to-god makes a real difference, I shall use your blasted spelling (*G* - even though it looks... really strange and will take me all day) but if it does, I'd really love to know, and why.

ETA: And messing with this all afternoon means I've done NO work - none at all - on the actual story (which was the whole point, wasn't it?) *g*

Comments

[zelempa.livejournal.com]

It doesn't matter to me in the least - I've read lots of American-spelled and British-spelled stories in TS and SGA, and it's all good with me, as long as, as you say, the content of the speech doesn't sound wrong for the region. I definitely think the author should do what is most comfortable for them. Any system that is consistent is fine.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

Well that's my attitude, too. I can't say American spelling takes me out of a Torchwood or DW or LOM or whatever fic; I don't read HP but I'd know there's a lot of it there too - but I have had a fair bit of feedback mentioning my spelling and since I was mid-beta, I thought I should maybe get some definitive answers.

Thanks for taking the time. (o:

[fluterbev.livejournal.com]

Hm, it's an issue I see debated a lot. Like you, it doesn't bother me the other way round - I've always read a lot of American writers, so for the most part I don't even notice what spelling is being used. Yet I've heard a substantial number of American readers say they have problems with reading British spelling in a US fandom.

You are a British writer - you are writing in your own language, just as a French writer might write Jim and Blair in French. It seems nonsensical to insist on you changing your entire syntax just because the characters you are portraying are American. As long as the dialogue and idioms are appropriate in the colloquial sense, what should it matter whether there are a few extra Us in there? Yet to some people it does. But other American readers have likewise said they have no difficulty reading British spelling. It's hard to infer from the discussions which pop us here and there which are in the majority.

Myself, I chose from day one to attempt to write in American, rather than British, English. I assumed that since most of the audience for TS fic is American, it would make sense to try to cater to them by adopting their language. Yet lots of great writers in the fandom don't bother to do so, and they are very well thought of. Mab Brown and Jess Riley spring to mind - not British, but their antipodean spelling is much the same as ours.

Having said that, it's an issue that concerns me enough that I am nervous about the British spelling I've chosen to use in my current WIP (in which the characters are in a fantasy setting, which bears no resemblance to America, so I decided to write in my own language for once). And I have no idea at all what to do with my Doctor Who/TS crossover!

All that waffle goes to show that I have no easy answer for you, sorry. But I do have a very appropriate icon ;-)

[boogieshoes.livejournal.com]

to me, it depends on the exact word. 'tyre' gets me every time, because it looks like a completely different word, not just 'tire' in 'british'.

honour/honor and color/colour will sometimes get me, but it usually depends on context.

otoh, i flow right over the z/s thing - realize/realise, recognize/recognise... i'm actually at the point where i don't know which of those is 'correct' american spelling anymore.

then there are the weird small things. i love Gil Hale, and she does an excellent job americanizing her fic, but it totally drives me crazy when she has someone 'ring up' some one else. in america, they *call* you... the weirdest thing about this is that i didn't catch until i was re-reading her stuff, which tells you how good she is!

any, back to the point. it depends on context, and exactly which spellings it is. i'm more likely to be picky about a fic set in modern-day times. that may, in fact, be the whole of my reaction to 'tyre' - it may look extremely old-fashioned to me. but by the same token, if the piece is set more than 100yrs ago, british spellings don't bother me as much, and i tend to think of them as adding to the atmosphere of the piece. even if it's an american piece.

i don't know if that makes sense, but i hope it helps.

-bs

[miwahni.livejournal.com]

As an Aussie who reads in both US and UK fandoms, I find that the correct number of u's in a word won't throw me out of an American fanfic - but there is one word that will throw me every single time.
Jim and Blair have asses. Bodie and Doyle have arses.
"Nuff said.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I see that someone 'ringing' someone matters because that's idiomatic and that should be right but why does it need to be spelled differently?

And I see where you're coming from because 'tire' looks awful to me, like someone can't spell (and I know it's correct for American English but it still looks bad to my eye - like all those 'ize's).

So I still don't know - I guess what I feel is I still don't see why the majority have to adapt because a minority can't?

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

Well yeah - quite agree (idiom, again. Nods. No argument there). *g*

'correct number of u's in a word...'
Heh heh heh. They drive on the wrong side of the road too, you know.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

I just don't know. To use American spelling feels like caving to a small, vocal minority and goes very much against the grain. And on the one occasion I used US spelling throughout, I had Brits and Aussies asking why I caved. *G*

Can't win, honest to God.

I'm inclined to leave the 'u's' in because it takes a long time to go through and change everything and I'm idle and my spell0checker is beyond crap. But... But... ::can't face having to give the same answers to the bloody fb again::

::sigh::

(o:

[therentgirls.livejournal.com]

I have to admit, when I read TS (or any other "American" show) and the spelling is not American, I am temporarily thrown out of the story. When I read dS, HL, etc, I skim right by the spelling if it's "British." I actually use a Canadian beta for dS to make sure Fraser doesn't do/say anything too USA. (In return, she has me look over her American stuff to catch Canadian spelling and wording.)

Just my two cents, worth nothing. ;>

[starwatcher]

.
Speaking as a reader and as a beta -- it matters not one whit. 'Honour' and 'honor' have the same pronunciation, so who cares which you use? IMO, the only people who complain are those who need to get a life.

It's a different matter with language, of course. Jim and Blair wouldn't take the 'lift' unless they were visiting your neck of the woods -- but you know that.

In short, words are important, system of spelling is not. (IE, it has to be spelled correctly in some part of the world. *g*)
.

[fluterbev.livejournal.com]

LOL I know what you mean. We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. You can always just accept the feedback gracefully and without explanation - "Thanks for your thoughtful feedback, your comments are much appreciated." :-)

It's funny, I'm sitting here right now watching the Disney version of Robin Hood with the kids, and the American accents - Friar Tuck saying, "Notting-HAM," for example - is really grating on me! LOL

[miwahni.livejournal.com]

You've really started me thinking about this. I don't think the spelling usage matters; in fact I don't think I notice it any more. It's the incorrect word usage that bugs me.
Having said that, this particular topic has raised its head on a number of lists, and the consensus always seems to be that a US-based fandom story should have US spelling, and vice-versa for UK. Opinion seems to be that it's required for authenticity. (hey don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger!)
They drive on the wrong side of the road too, you know.
I'd noticed! *vbg*

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

As an English writer writing for mostly American shows, I feel your pain :-) I held out for years clinging to my spelling; idioms and different words (boot/trunk) I was fine with changing, but I wanted my s and u spelling.

Then I began to edit and proof for an American publisher and eh, I gave in and retrained my spellchecker and now I use US spellings throughout... but it still feels like a betrayal in a way.

[andeincascade.livejournal.com]

Oh puh-leeze! I can't imagine getting thrown out by spelling. Idiom is different but then I am probably a poor judge of these matters since I am getting Britified at a rapid rate. I hardly know which is which anymore.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

Oh NottingHAM! LOL; that rates with Mulder's 'ARVEbury' (Avebury??) in the fingernails down a blackboard stakes. *G* And yet, I rather like the Disney RH, and it's Disney, you have to just *accept*.

"Thanks for your thoughtful feedback, your comments are much appreciated."
Bwahahaha! I rather like that. ::nods:: Yup.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

So, in those fandoms, do the American writers use British spelling in Brit fandoms cause if they do, I've never noticed (but then, I guess I wouldn't - unless you already knew the nationality of the author) - the boot always seems to be on the other foot and I just wonder why it seems to matter so much. I suspect it doesn't to the majority; just a small but vocal minority.

Still musing, but more and more inclined to leave the spelling be.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

But *why* does the spelling throw you?

'I actually use a Canadian beta for dS to make sure Fraser doesn't do/say anything too USA'
But do you also change your spelling to Canadian? - it's spelling I'm asking specifically about, not idioms. I understand that Americans shouldn't use British idioms, but spelling...?

I read a lot of fic and I've never been thrown out of a story by the spelling (unless it's really bad. (o:). It seems to be more of a problem for American readers than those of other nationalities.

[madmogs.livejournal.com]

I must confess that in younger and much less mature days I wanked my way out of Starsky & Hutch fandom because I got a US-beta to check for the kind of things you're mentioning, but still got all these prim little comments telling me that the bits I'd missed 'threw me right out of the story'.

And I was like, you two-faced fucktards, I've been reading your bastardisation of Harry Potter and Lord of the Riings language for years without thinking any worse of you etc. etc. (and we don't need to fill in the rest of that rant) turned to Pros fandom and became a Brit-nazi (but a passive-aggressive one because I couldn't be arsed to get too heavily involved in the fandom). After that I think I might have grown up a bit.

So. Um. I would say, please yourself because chances are you aren't going to please anybody else. These days, if it was me, I would go for complete authenticity including spellings, but I wouldn't think the worse of anyone who didn't, unless they were writing British characters and used the dreaded 'gotten'.

[starwatcher]

.
I still don't see why the majority have to adapt because a minority can't?

And that's it exactly. As an American, I get soooo tired of Americans who expect the entire rest of the world to bend to doing things "our" way... from the president right on down. It demonstrates an attitude of inflexibility and entitlement.

I get fb that tells me 'the spelling really took me out of the story'.

My gut response to them would be, "Sucks to be you, doesn't it, ducky?" Not that I would ever say it... *g*

Look at it this way. You've written the best Jim and Blair characterization you know how. Now, your beta might say, "I'm not sure Jim would really xxx; you might want to rethink that. It might be better if yyy." So you do rethink, and consider, and you decide that your interpretation is valid, and necessary for the story, and you don't change it.

That's your prerogative as a writer and, once you've made the decision, you don't stew over it. Spelling is your decision, too, and it's your prerogative to stick with the UK version.

You might head off stupid nit-picking by addressing it in the header information. "Warning: Brit spelling ahead. If it upsets you, kindly use the back button instead of complaining." But regardless, my advice is to stick to your guns; you're a Brit and you're allowed to use Brit spelling, ffs!

Um... can you tell I feel very passionately about (some) people shoving other people around? As in, readers who expect every little detail to go their way. Not 'no', but 'HELL, no!'
.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

'it has to be spelled correctly in some part of the world.
LOL. Hmmm... Not sure about that - I've read *some* stories... *G*

But yeah, I feel the same, I find it hard to understand why it's such a problem for some people. When Americans use their own spellings in a DW story, for example, it doesn't bother me at all. Idioms and slang and the like; that's a whole other matter - The HP Kids 'graduating' from Hogwarts; Sam Tyler using the elevator or a faucet , Jim and Blair checking under the bonnet, searching the flat - that's just annoying and irritatingly lazy.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

It's different when you're working in the professional world but in fic? It feels wrong to me because it shouldn't matter and I'm still waiting for one of those to whom it *does* to really explain *why*.

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

Well, it wouldn't bother me :-) I'd want the words to be American (elevator not lift, etc) and Jim and Blair to sound American but colour/color type stuff; nope, I'll adjust to whatever is used as long as it's consistent.

[cross-stitchery.livejournal.com]

i've alwys used New Zealand (aka British) spelling. in ten years of writing fanfic i've never even had someone comment on it. i did think about using US speling briefly, but since my first fandom was due South, which is nominally, at least, Canadian, i didn't see any point.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

LOL. I got that way when I was working for CBS. I had to call the BBC correspondent to check if certain bit of my piece were briticisms or not and he had to admit that, from moonlighting for the US press corps, he just didn't know any more, and far from it just being Americanisms in British speak, I hear more and more Americans saying wank and shag and bollocks (why is it all the rude words?) and - ::sigh::

I mean, the spelling doesn't bother me one bit, in fact, I quite enjoy seeing the differences but it does seem to matter a LOT to some people - and I know that American spellers get incredible grief over in HP fic so I'm honestly not just standing here, clothes in tatters, hair all on end pointing an icy, accusing finger, screaming 'it's YOU people' *G*

(Icy, pointy, accusing finger duly withdrawn).

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

'...used the dreaded 'gotten'.'
Oh God. No. Not that one. That's started wars...

heh heh.

It's all such a bleedin' pain, isn't it?